{my_title}:: Warning: this weblog is run by an atheist

Monday, August 08, 2005

Warning: this weblog is run by an atheist

PZ Myers • 557 Comments (last page)

I am getting a great deal of angry email because I scorned religion in a few posts this weekend. Some people seem to be surprised to learn that I don't share any of their religious beliefs. Allow me to clarify and pass on a few suggestions if you feel the need to complain.

I do not think most religious people are bad. Quite the contrary; I think most people are decent in spite of their religion. I have a higher opinion of most religious people than you may think, while having a lower opinion of religion than you can imagine.
Don't try to tell me that the only way to enlist religious people to aid the cause of reason is to keep atheism in the closet. I say the only way for decent people to get over their anti-atheist bigotry is to make them aware that their neighbors and teachers and postal workers and plumbers and carpenters include freethinkers with a wide range of views…that don't include bowing to imaginary beings.
Also, don't try to tell me that we atheists must make common cause with sensible religious people. We try. We get along better with the dominant Christian majority than they do with us. Perhaps, instead, those sensible religious people should see atheists as allies who will readily point out the parasites and scam artists and demagogues within their faiths.
Please don't lecture me on how to be an atheist. The uninformed biases of the religious on how atheists are supposed to be are about as relevant as the opinions of white people on how the Negro is supposed to behave.
To everyone who was compelled by my contempt for D. James Kennedy and his ilk to write and tell me that he is not representative of your faith: how many of you good Christians have taken the time to condemn these hating bibliolators and ideologues of the Religious Right in letters to your congressman or even conversations with your minister? It's easier to berate that outsider atheist than to police your own, is it?
Don't damn the messenger who tells you your house of god is a den of thieves and liars. Clean up your mess.

There. Now if I can be comfortable with your belief that I'm going to burn in Hell, you should be able to cope with my belief that your god-bothering nonsense is a steaming heap o' BS. If not, there are plenty of less prickly weblogs out there.

P.S. Those of you sending me all the evangelical crap and signing me up for Christian mailing lists…you are really wasting your time.

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Comments:

#34314: DarkSyde — 08/08 at 04:06 PM
Kick ass and well said!

#34315: — 08/08 at 04:07 PM
Once again you demonstrate why this blog is one of those I visit every time I am online. Thank you, and keep it up.

#34316: — 08/08 at 04:08 PM

Time spent arguing with the faithful is, oddly enough, almost never wasted.
— Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian (2001)

#34317: Ron Sullivan — 08/08 at 04:13 PM

Please don't lecture me on how to be an atheist.

I would be absolutely fascinated to learn some of the particulars of that one.

#34318: — 08/08 at 04:16 PM
PZ, you'll never be governor of Minnesota if you keep this up ... unless perhaps you take up pro-wrestling first and start dressing like a queen on 'roids.

In 2005, it's mere habit for many of us to ignore the incessant fungelical fingerpointing regarding, e.g., the incontrovertible role that secooler humanoids play in destroying the fabric of our society by promoting popper abuse in kindergarten sex classes etc. etc ad nauseum.

Ironically, the baseball bat is most necessary for the science-sympathetic appeasers of religionists who robotically warn us that any presentation of evidence that a Christian might be intentionally misleading his/her target audience is "counterproductive."

Don't you understand, PZ? YOU'RE ALIENATING THE RUBES!, is what these spin-consuming weaklings continually remind us. Implicit to the "strategy" promoted by these cowed speak-no-evils is the view that Christians are so stupid and/or hardwired that they will never never never ever question what any preacher says unless their religion is first praised as the greatest freaking thing that ever existed in the universe.

And what evidence do these cowardly religion-coddling appeasers have for their view that the vast majority of American Christians are irredeemably stupid robots incapable of feeling shame when their preacher is LOUDLY, REPEATEDLY AND INCONTROVERTIBLY called on his/her bullcrap?

None. Zilcho. NADA.

The problem is that the lazy pathetic power-worshipping media in this country refuses to take ignorant preachers to task for their lying bullshit. There is a way to fix that problem, of course. But it requires that people start using their mouths for other tasks besides kissing the mostly white asses of loud-mouthed ignoble charlatans who call themselves Christians.

#34321: — 08/08 at 04:24 PM
1. Why should one have to define oneself in terms of what one is not: "atheist". One doesn't have to define oneself as "undead" "a-nazi" or "a-massmurderer."

2. To make up for the nasty emails from those who didn't learn the difference between a hypothesis and a theory:
I Love your site. XOXOXO

#34322: Morat — 08/08 at 04:33 PM

I would be absolutely fascinated to learn some of the particulars of that one.

No, you really wouldn't. Suffice it to say that many otherwise upstanding folk have an odd laundry list of things atheists MUST believe.

I find it tiresome just explaining the notions of weak and strong atheism, and how it relates to agnositicism. I try to avoid the "Then you must believe that rape and murder is good" people.

#34326: Constantine — 08/08 at 04:44 PM
PZ, you got a great deal of angry e-mail because you made a throwaway comment at the end of this post that was of such appalling ignorance that some "thoughtful Christian" people couldn't resist making a sincere plea to "not throw the baby out with the bathwater," instead of simply dismissing it as a rhetorical flourish. You, then, instead of laughing your own comment off as simply throwaway rhetoric of the sort one sees as blogs, continued to belabor the point. Thus you received a lot of stupid comments from others.

I mean, please, some comments on religion are worthwhile, and some stuff belongs in the High School "I just discovered atheism" department.

No, there's no reason to lecture you on how to be an atheist, but try to, at least, pay lipservice to the anti-stupidity faction of which you claim to be a member.

#34328: Matthew Goggins — 08/08 at 04:52 PM
My two comments in the previous comment thread address how I feel about your confrontational rhetoric.

#34329: Cameron — 08/08 at 04:54 PM
Thanks, Constantine

#34330: — 08/08 at 04:58 PM
Well, so much for setting up an ecumenical front of opposition to fundie nonsense. The Catholics (most recently 1950) and the Mormons (1930) both officially stated that they saw no conflict between the sciences (biology, geology, etc.) and their religious beliefs. They both take the position that these are issues for scientists. If you got them involved you would have some major conservative religions involved to highlight that the creationism is just sectarian religious teachings in disguise.

You might get them involved in an ecumenical effort to keep science classes limited to science, but only if scientists take the lead and keep it ecumenical. Catholics, Mormons, etc. can work together but it takes conscious effort to avoid antagonizing their partners with unrelated religious issues. Atheists would need to make the same efforts. Without an ecumenical effort by all parties you won't get religious leaders to participate. In other social issues there have been successful ecumenical efforts and there have been failures where religious differences prevented joint work to solve a social problem.

Don't expect direct leadership by religious groups. The Catholics and Mormons have already said "not my problem". They don't want to get involved with issues of science. On a theological basis they already have massive disagreements with the fundies. The creationism issue is just one more.

#34336: — 08/08 at 05:14 PM
PZ is an atheist? Oh, fuck, I had no idea.

#34337: Kevin B. — 08/08 at 05:18 PM
Haha, you rock, PZ.

#34338: — 08/08 at 05:19 PM
I would enjoy reading the more entertaining and uninformed emails you get on this topic, and other topics for that matter. Please consider posting them, anonymously if necessary.

#34341: — 08/08 at 05:30 PM
rjh

"The Catholics and Mormons have already said "not my problem". They don't want to get involved with issues of science."

How does this conclusion square with a recent barely intelligible but undeniably science-related and almost surely Discovery Institute-scripted pronouncement by one of the most powerful Catholics on earth?

Answer: it doesn't square.

"You might get them involved in an ecumenical effort to keep science classes limited to science, but only if scientists take the lead and keep it ecumenical."

Let me add another "only if" : only if those scientists who take the lead and keep it ecumenical are LOUD REPETITIVE and INCONTROVERTIBLE in their denouncement of their fellow Christians as intentional liars trying to shove their particular religious views down the throats of others.

Thus far most of the self-identified Christian scientists with public microphones are far too generous and unacceptably vague when it comes to stating what the fxcking problem is.

When will Harold Varmus -- a man who has the ear of the New York Times and various other media outlets -- launch into a clear concise take-no-prisoners attack on the Discovery Institute, its mentally disturbed founder. Howard Ahmanson, and the rotten charlatans who work there?

Answer: never.

Why?

It's not in Varmus' nature.

But it's also not in Eugenie Scott's nature. Is Eugenie Scott not our most publically visible "defender" of evolution?

Something to think about.

#34342: — 08/08 at 05:36 PM
Is that lower case steve from Panda's Thumb? The notoriously bored master of the one sentence snark?

Have you come here to watch us bring down the property value of science?

If so, EAT YOUR HEART OUT!!!! (<-- all caps and extra punctuation just for you, babe)

#34343: PZ Myers — 08/08 at 05:37 PM

you made a throwaway comment at the end of this post that was of such appalling ignorance that some "thoughtful Christian" people couldn't resist making a sincere plea to "not throw the baby out with the bathwater,"

You aren't getting my point here. That wasn't a throwaway comment, nor was it made in ignorance. I sincerely and without apology consider a tree or a blade of grass of far greater importance than any stack of bibles; I also have much respect for those deists who feel the same way, even if they do believe in a god. If I were the proselytizing sort, I'd sit you down and explain why it is appalling ignorance to think otherwise.

And if the Bible is a baby, it is one codawful ugly fanged lizardoid monster baby, and I think we should not only throw it out with the bathwater, but maybe we ought to chop it up first and make sure the garbage disposal is powered up before we pull the plug and let its grisly bits swirl down the drain hole.

But that's just me. Atheist, you know.

PZ Myers
Division of Science and Math
University of Minnesota, Morris

#34346: PZ Myers — 08/08 at 05:51 PM
You've got it partly right, GWW.

I think the scientists who are Christian are an asset to our endeavor, and I want them front and center to show that evolution and theology are independent from one another. They are the religious people who have not allowed dogma to turn their brains to mush.

But I think they ought to be standing arm-in-arm with the huge number of freethinking scientists, as well. Instead, they're treated like the deformed hunchback who has to be kept in the attic, while the pretty theistic brother is kept prominently in the public eye. It's a skewed picture we're presenting, and it's not honest.

PZ Myers
Division of Science and Math
University of Minnesota, Morris

#34348: — 08/08 at 05:56 PM
Perfect!

And I thought that last bit was the most moving part of your post.

#34349: — 08/08 at 05:57 PM
Nomally, I'm generally of the "let's all just try to get along" school, but as an atheist, I do get mighty sick of hearing how atheists ___________________ (fill in the blank with your favorite anti-atheist canard) by people whose heads are so far up their behinds they think the sky is brown. Atheists belong to the last minority group that's it's OK (heck, it's encouraged) to openly discriminate against and vilify. So, you go, PZ!

#34350: — 08/08 at 05:57 PM
PZ wrote, in an earlier article:

A single tree is a greater marvel than the thousand bibles that could be printed from its pulped-up trunk; if we mulched every Bible published to foster the growth of a single blade of grass, we'd be the richer for it.

Then follows with this:

I think the scientists who are Christian are an asset to our endeavor, and I want them front and center to show that evolution and theology are independent from one another. They are the religious people who have not allowed dogma to turn their brains to mush.

Fascinating approach you have to seeking out allies in your endeavor. Well done.

#34351: ekzept — 08/08 at 06:10 PM

You aren't getting my point here. That wasn't a throwaway comment, nor was it made in ignorance. I sincerely and without apology consider a tree or a blade of grass of far greater importance than any stack of bibles.

yeah, well, bibles being what they are have "noise" in their god-message and trees and blades of grass are AFAWK unadulterated "as god made them", using evolution. of course, there's always that silly possibility their DNA has been tampered with.

#34353: — 08/08 at 06:14 PM
Hysterical. Someone says "if you don't stop believing your own eyes and instead believe everything in my magic book, then you are an immoral person and you will suffer the worst imaginable torture for eternity... and you'll deserve it! The book itself says so!"

Respond with "what a load of bullshit," and they're outraged at your rudeness.

#34354: — 08/08 at 06:20 PM
"maybe we ought to chop it up first and make sure the garbage disposal is powered up before we pull the plug and let its grisly bits swirl down the drain hole."

Heavens! This is almost as shocking as that Ted Zeppelin song about sympathising with the devil.

Bobby! Suzie! run straight home! I'll be there as soon as I let Dr. Myers know how deeply he has wounded me with his insensitive comments. Until then, pray deeply that the Lord leads Dr. Myers from the path towards eternal damnation which surely awaits his tortured godless soul.

Dr. Myers, surely you realize that many people in the United States care very deeply about their religious beliefs and don't enjoy having their beliefs questioned by logically contradictory "skeptics" who lack a moral foundation for their worldview (i.e., you).

We don't demand that you become a Christian (although it would be nice, especially if you admitted to my friends that it was me who converted you). We only demand that you keep your opinions to yourself. The fact that a historical accident has led to our particular religious beliefs being favorably advertised on your currency, in your courts, and in the daily prayer for our country recited in our nation's hopefully failing public school system surely does not merit such vitriol as the above pronouncement.

Were it up to me, I would make it a crime to say the things you say. Of course, it's not up to me. It's up to my congressmen, a fellow Christian, who is drafting such a bill as we speak. Will it pass? I pray that it will but who can say?

In the meantime, why must you engage in activities which divide our family? We try very hard to teach our children the difference between right and wrong. If they know that they can do whatever they want without fear of going to hell, what is going to keep them from sniffing glue, fornicating with each other, and driving drunk like the gays do?

So please, Dr. Myers, try to be more considerate. For our children's sake.

#34355: — 08/08 at 06:22 PM
"Fascinating approach you have to seeking out allies in your endeavor. Well done."

And whatever you do, PZ, don't ever say that you didn't enjoy watching James Cameron's "Titanic" -- that is one of the most popular movies ever made!!!!!

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